Curse

Kanyatta · Jun 07, 2011, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

A "sorry" player can land any drop in the game, they're random.

The odds of getting a perfect drop without ever being at least decent at the game are very slim. The odds of being able to get 30k through missions/quests without ever getting a basic knowledge of the game are good. You can get many great skinned perfect weapons for 15k-30k.

Drops aren't as "random" as you think they are. Crystalline swords primarily come from HoH chests. How many people "randomly" stumble upon that chest and get that drop? Pretty much zero. Or even getting an emerald blade/edge from the Bogroot Chest takes some level of competence in the game. Buying a perfect Elemental Sword (one of the most sought after skins in the pre-eotn nightfall era) takes the ability to sit through playing 4 hours of PvE to get the necessary amount of gold.

Xiaquin · Jun 07, 2011, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

The odds of getting a perfect drop without ever being at least decent at the game are very slim. The odds of being able to get 30k through missions/quests without ever getting a basic knowledge of the game are good. You can get many great skinned perfect weapons for 15k-30k.

Drops aren't as "random" as you think they are. Crystalline swords primarily come from HoH chests. How many people "randomly" stumble upon that chest and get that drop? Pretty much zero. Or even getting an emerald blade/edge from the Bogroot Chest takes some level of competence in the game. Buying a perfect Elemental Sword (one of the most sought after skins in the pre-eotn nightfall era) takes the ability to sit through playing 4 hours of PvE to get the necessary amount of gold.

I'm not sure I made it clear enough, but I will try again: anyone, it does not matter who you are, has the same chance to get a weapon to drop as anyone else. Obviously, the more you farm, the more likely you'll get a drop. Whether or not there are inscr. weapons in the game does not affect this basic fact.

Furthermore, this thread is not about elite content or the exclusive skins therein, and you don't need to play any of it. It could take all of 5 minutes to land a mini polar bear and you're set for life (ok, all but few of us). Some lucky enough to get a promotional miniature never had to do a thing. Hundreds of ecto will buy almost anything without having to play a minute of prestigious, difficult content. Following that, those 4 hours playing for that Ele sword actually sounds like it's not even worth it. Why do you think so many people power trade?

cataphract · Jun 07, 2011, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

No, because people that play the game get gold drops naturally, and can use those gold drops now because their inscriptable. Farming isn't challenging its grind. Prestige is code for e-peen. Reward creep has been given the stamp of approval, check the reward creep thread. The hip skin today would be for example eternal blade...and those are still quite expensive to buy and hard to farm for a casual player because they come from the end chest of underworld.

They're still ugly as hell.

Bright Star Shine · Jun 07, 2011, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

No, because people that play the game get gold drops naturally, and can use those gold drops now because their inscriptable. Farming isn't challenging its grind. Prestige is code for e-peen. Reward creep has been given the stamp of approval, check the reward creep thread. The hip skin today would be for example eternal blade...and those are still quite expensive to buy and hard to farm for a casual player because they come from the end chest of underworld.

But an Eternal Blade is NOT by any means RARE. You don't grasp the concept. They're common as dirt. A lot of people just want them and thus they are rather expensive. Basic supply-demand says hi..

To Chicken To Die · Jun 07, 2011, 12:26 PM // 12:26

The only bad thing about inscriptions are the "Measure for Measure" Highly salvageable fakes :P Getting them once in while just like today Gold Diamond Aegis I needed diamonds had this driscription so tada expert salvage kit got 3 iron ignot out of it.

MithranArkanere · Jun 07, 2011, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Again, If you concept of 'rare' is 'only 10/100/1000 players have it', then you may want to look at the Miniatures, not at the weapons. Weapons are meant to be used, and the drops are clearly designed so anyone can get them by themselves without having to buy them from someone else, given enough time.

GW never was meant to have a hack&slash style of drops in which each drop may be rather unique.
Having PvP characters and their easiness to get gear, while also allowing PvE characters to join PvP, changes the kind of gear PvE characters need.
Why adding so many skins, if in the end players would have to use just crafter and collector weapons if they want to have PvP-grade equipment?
That wouldn't make any sense.

Instead blaming everything on inscriptions, you could be asking for many other things that would add much more of what you ask that hijacking all the drop system and turn it into something that doesn't fit GW1 for the benefit of a 'select few'.

Want 'thrill' before you identify an item?
Ask for damage and requirement to be hidden. Or better still, ask for the skin itself to be hidden.
It is true that inscriptions make identification almost pointless, since you see most of the properties before you identify the item, so all that's left is a chance that the weapon may not be have an inscription slot, a chance that becomes smaller with the rarity of the weapon, since rare weapons tent to have more upgrades, maxed, and all slots filled much more often that common and uncommon ones.
A generic skin could be used for unidentified items, and all swords would appear as the very same "unidentified common/uncommon/rare" sword. Even uniques could be like that.
Also, PvE drops could get unique PvE properties that do not affect PvP, that would allow your desired 'rarity', without affecting PvP equipment. That could also make rare grade weapons really rare again, and unique really unique, by making common have only one PvE property, uncommon up to 2, rare up to 4, and uniques really unique properties that can't be found in other items.

Want to keep 'rare' weapons 'rare' longer?
Ask for a sink for them. Inscriptions or not, the market gets filled over time with the drops, thanks to overfarming and speedclears done in HM. A sink for the weapons that removes from the market existing weapons ensures that the new drops have a place, at least until no one else in the game wants to buy anything else, which would happen when no more players join the game. Fortunately, thanks to digital distribution systems like Steam that is probably in the far future.

Want to have a drop system in which some things are so rare that you can hardly get them unless you buy them from someone that was lucky enough to find one?
Well, you still have things like the polar bear, which may not drop for you even if you spend the entire Wintersday celebration going for it, but that's not a weapon. But there's something missing in GW1 to be able to allow that kind of weapon drops: A market system. You can argue all you want about it, but it won't change the truth: GW has no actual market system, and having to register in external sites and spamming for countless hours in an outpost does NOT qualify as one.

So, you are looking at what you think is the root of the problem, but it isn't everything you blamed on inscriptions it's not inscription's fault. It comes either from players, or from some other thing lacking in the game.

But you are not looking for alternatives, you are just complaining about partially losing a bad system that catered to your style of playing, but not of the majority of players, in favor of a proper system that is more consistent with how gear works in GW.

You say "inscriptions suck" I say "We should have inscriptions worldwide, and a weapon upgrade trader to make any needed quick changes in gear before joining PvP matches, or better still, an actual market, and PvE-only properties fixed to the weapon that do not affect PvP, and better customization that is also required for proper gameplay so new items find their way into the market and old ones get removed".

You should see GW as a whole, not just a narrow part of it that fits your view of the game.

Martin Alvito · Jun 07, 2011, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Adding the inscription system and reducing the frequency of drops to 5% of pre-inscription norms would have resulted in more or less the same item market.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the inscription system itself. On paper it's a positive change. The problems with it lie in the way it was implemented. The drop rates on attractive weapon skins were simply too high.

There is an obvious reason for this: developer greed. The marketing department was smart enough to figure out that making previously rare skins drop everywhere would drive sales. The result? They debased previously valuable skins to sell copies of Nightfall and EotN.

The good news is that the pattern is predictable, so you can protect yourself when GW2 rolls around. The bad news is that there is absolutely no way the devs will stop doing this, given the revenue model.

Urcscumug · Jun 07, 2011, 02:29 PM // 14:29

I think you're reading way too much into this.

The scope of the developers has always been to make GW as accessible as possible for casual players. That is what drives sales: the idea that anybody can pick up a copy of GW and enjoy it. Even people with no previous RPG experience, or MMO experience, or even gaming experience.

I see inscriptions as simply a step in ensuring that everyone can get genuinely useful weapons.

I don't think that the going of the in-game market affects dev decisions. It makes no sense. It would make sense if players payed a monthly fee and existing players had to be considered. But that's not the case. They got your money. The marketing department doesn't care about you anymore.

They care about people who haven't bought GW yet. And those people will pick up a copy because they heard that GW is fun and you get everything you need without grinding, not because they heard that now axes drop in skin Whatever.

The people in this thread are not representative. They're veteran, hardcore players, with their head too deep in Kamadan and the game to see the forest anymore. They don't understand that the average GW player never even finishes all the campaigns, that GW is just another game they try for a while. Outside of a select few, the vast majority of players are completely oblivious to "the market" and rare skins.

Ghull Ka · Jun 07, 2011, 04:21 PM // 16:21

It's neat being a fly on the wall and watching entitled and/or elite players talk about what I do and do not "deserve" in this game.

Premium Unleaded · Jun 07, 2011, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Regard of what the original intention may or may not have been, this thread really seems come off as a 'qq can't make more money from selling weapons' thing. Title certainly doesn't help.

Kanyatta · Jun 07, 2011, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urcscumug

I see inscriptions as simply a step in ensuring that everyone can get genuinely useful weapons.

You're in the same boat as a lot of people here with not understanding the argument presented.

No one is saying that access to "useful" weapons should be limited. Ever since the inception of the game, you could get perfect weapons for dirt cheap from collectors, and I'm pretty certain everyone on both sides of this issue is okay with that. The issue is, those weapons all had the basic skins you get when you first make a PvP-only character immediately after installing the game.

The argument being made is that skins should have more vanity involved in the game. There's hardly any expensive/elite skins anymore that drop in-game, and inscriptions have prevented skins from being expensive anymore, since even the most terribly identified weapon can be made perfect with no effort and very little money.

Xenomortis · Jun 07, 2011, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

The argument being made is that skins should have more vanity involved in the game. There's hardly any expensive/elite skins anymore that drop in-game, and inscriptions have prevented skins from being expensive anymore, since even the most terribly identified weapon can be made perfect with no effort and very little money.

A result of a lack of demand and the abundance of supply. All removing the inscription system does is simply wreck the supply. Those weapons that are rare get overfarmed, a result of the SC business A.Net seem so eager to protect. Had the rate at which inscribable weapons dropped been decreased dramatically, there would be little change.

And remember that to the average player, a lot of these weapons are expensive. Even spending a mere 30k on a weapon could cut heavily into the gold reserves. A weapon skin above 100k would be a massive investment; they would have to actively save up to be able to buy them, or try their luck farming.

Kanyatta · Jun 07, 2011, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

A weapon skin above 100k would be a massive investment; they would have to actively save up to be able to buy them, or try their luck farming.

That's precisely the reason why it's called a "rare" or "elite" skin...

Xenomortis · Jun 07, 2011, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

That's precisely the reason why it's called a "rare" or "elite" skin...

Yes, my point is that I think most of us have lost all sense of scale.

Essence Snow · Jun 07, 2011, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Aside from a bit of greed and egos being hurt...I'm not really seeing what the problem is here. There are still many skins that are nice that are only available uniscriptable..heck there is a whole sub-market based around them. There is even demand for the uniscribable verison of ones that do come in inscribable versions. It kinda equates to.....

melissa b · Jun 07, 2011, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

But an Eternal Blade is NOT by any means RARE. You don't grasp the concept. They're common as dirt. A lot of people just want them and thus they are rather expensive. Basic supply-demand says hi..

Na, its rare...

"The Eternal Blade is a rare sword that is only dropped from high-end chests." - http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Eternal_Blade

How many casuals do you think have gotten an eternal blade without trading versus a Blazing Wing Wand?

Xiaquin · Jun 07, 2011, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

That's precisely the reason why it's called a "rare" or "elite" skin...

If every place wasn't so over-farmed, there might be more rarity to drops, would there not? Common armor is named for accessibility, but appears as ubiquitous as the name implies. Even the rarest/most expensive ones are less prestigious than many rare weapons because there's an infinite supply to serve abundances of wealth.

Urcscumug · Jun 07, 2011, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

And remember that to the average player, a lot of these weapons are expensive. Even spending a mere 30k on a weapon could cut heavily into the gold reserves. A weapon skin above 100k would be a massive investment; they would have to actively save up to be able to buy them, or try their luck farming.

30k? Try 5k. That's the absolute maximum you have to go for to get absolutely perfect items of any kind you want. Anything over that is pure lust and vanity. To each their own, not judging, de gustibus non disputandum, but I just wanted to show the difference of scale.

Xenomortis · Jun 07, 2011, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urcscumug

30k? Try 5k. That's the absolute maximum you have to go for to get absolutely perfect items of any kind you want. Anything over that is pure lust and vanity. To each their own, not judging, de gustibus non disputandum, but I just wanted to show the difference of scale.

...
I know how much the weapon crafters charge for a max, fully modded weapon. Clearly that was not what I was referring to. I was referring to such 'vanity' items that to us, are dirt cheap, but to others, may not be so. For example, looking through Guru's sell forums I see r10 Eternal Shields going for 30k.
I thought the quote made the context of my post quite clear.

Lanier · Jun 07, 2011, 08:25 PM // 20:25

My opinion has always been that, because everyone has different tastes as to what looks "cool" and "not cool" or "boring", all skins should be available to even the most casual of players. I never really liked the concept of "prestige" items anyway. I, luckily enough, enjoy several of the more common skins (like the broadsword and the platinum wand), but I realize that several people may like echovald shields or jittes the most, and I don't see any reason why those shouldn't be available in inscribable forms. I would love to see celestial staves in inscribable forms myself. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, rather than inscriptions being bad, I really like them and think that all factions and prophesies skins should have inscribable versions.

Note that I am not saying this out of want for an inscribable factions weapon. In fact, I have made a lot of money off of selling weapons found on my chest runs in cantha, and making inscribable versions of factions skins would probably hurt my money-making methods. My opinion that inscriptions are good is based solely on the fact that I think all skins should be available to all players so that any player can choose the skin of weapon that they like most.